tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7533727264507128560.post4466233039235340715..comments2024-03-28T10:49:53.597-07:00Comments on Lessons Learned: Why PHP wonErichttp://www.blogger.com/profile/12249063135381216090noreply@blogger.comBlogger48125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7533727264507128560.post-45658414812195868032010-06-14T10:33:08.713-07:002010-06-14T10:33:08.713-07:00Just a shout-out for python, here -- I'm one o...Just a shout-out for python, here -- I'm one of your 'bleeding edge of the web' gurus, but *whenever* I do something server-side, it's python.<br /><br />[also I think your 'python paradox' doesn't really hold in my experience -- python is really easy to learn...]Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7533727264507128560.post-3428236951148180602010-02-17T03:59:50.872-08:002010-02-17T03:59:50.872-08:00What an amusing article. I love programming in PHP...What an amusing article. I love programming in PHP and agree it has won (as of the moment). However, I gotta say, let's not knock it too much because bad programmers can produce bad PHP code. I for one can produce lovely PHP code when I take/have the time. And I produce bad PHP code when I don't have/take the time.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12933718267288991332noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7533727264507128560.post-52093788789264735402009-11-19T12:02:23.013-08:002009-11-19T12:02:23.013-08:00Interesting... makes me wonder should I learn PHP ...Interesting... makes me wonder should I learn PHP now?? ;)Dipuhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07233773168169612006noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7533727264507128560.post-68276703958026938682009-07-31T03:49:04.029-07:002009-07-31T03:49:04.029-07:00Really I am agree with you this article. It is rea...Really I am agree with you this article. It is really great article.Web Developemnt Companyhttp://www.perceptionsystem.com/web-development-services.htmlnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7533727264507128560.post-24880387012754192362009-07-27T00:45:05.515-07:002009-07-27T00:45:05.515-07:00I like this article. it is very useful to me.I like this article. it is very useful to me.PHP Developer - Taufikhttp://www.perceptionsystem.com/php-mysql-programming.htmlnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7533727264507128560.post-66364195456304604512009-07-07T09:20:17.172-07:002009-07-07T09:20:17.172-07:00It's PHP that brings me to the world of web de...It's PHP that brings me to the world of web developing. <br />I haven't yet tried neither ruby nor python. But I will always go with PHP only because of my loyalty to it.hedonplayhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08807919343082989439noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7533727264507128560.post-15914769961821981502009-07-01T10:19:43.303-07:002009-07-01T10:19:43.303-07:00Really nice article i like your article very much....Really nice article i like your article very much. Its fact and php is also nice programming languagePrabin Jhahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15839846848917899051noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7533727264507128560.post-56585523135283683032009-05-16T09:37:00.000-07:002009-05-16T09:37:00.000-07:00Great article, I've used many different programmin...Great article, I've used many different programming languages, but for web development, I think PHP definitely takes the cakeJeffhttp://www.unbrandedcart.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7533727264507128560.post-74008068845609780702009-05-02T08:14:00.000-07:002009-05-02T08:14:00.000-07:00what a great site and informative posts, I always ...what a great site and informative posts, I always look forward to new posts.<br /><br />Web Art Sense Team<br />http://www.webartsense.comWeb Art Sensehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03376837700067454919noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7533727264507128560.post-38964350650305111212009-04-04T07:21:00.000-07:002009-04-04T07:21:00.000-07:00Perl is the best scripting language for Text proce...Perl is the best scripting language for Text processing and handle regex. I have posted few articles related to those at my blog<BR/><BR/><A HREF="http://icfun.blogspot.com/search/label/perl" REL="nofollow">http://icfun.blogspot.com/search/label/perl</A><BR/><BR/>Also Perl's Cpan has lots of support that I don't even need to think extra while developing project. I didn't find such help on other programming language except Java and .NETDemonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17577123618506519393noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7533727264507128560.post-59491419917410110572009-02-21T15:23:00.000-08:002009-02-21T15:23:00.000-08:00I've been programming PHP for 6-7 years, I've also...I've been programming PHP for 6-7 years, I've also worked with ASP.NET but didn't like it as much.<BR/><BR/>PHP can be ugly and a complex scripting language. When you begin to use it with a nice framework like Zend Framework, you have something much more powerful, clean, and organized. In my opinion, Zend Framework IS what makes PHP a real programming language.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7533727264507128560.post-39913236303971207412009-02-21T10:36:00.000-08:002009-02-21T10:36:00.000-08:00I am in the same position that I have to decide wh...I am in the same position that I have to decide whether to use PHP or another one of those MVC frameworks (Rails/Django). As much as I wanted to personally code in Django/Python, the benefits of you mentioned above made me decide to use PHP. All of my team members are not dizzied by the html/code mixing so we do not use any PHP templating that will add another abstraction layer to a really simple request-response scenario.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7533727264507128560.post-33287258231212419462009-02-17T02:32:00.000-08:002009-02-17T02:32:00.000-08:00Hello Eric Ries , Thanks for the great bl...Hello Eric Ries ,<BR/> Thanks for the great blog. I like your style of posting and useful information <BR/> Which you always provide. Your post is really knowledgeable...<BR/> <BR/> Thanks Again...<BR/> NET CREATIVE MIND TEAM<BR/>http://www.netcreativemind.comUnknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08310870755377153087noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7533727264507128560.post-64596280877326312622009-02-04T10:40:00.000-08:002009-02-04T10:40:00.000-08:00I think several of the commenters here not only do...I think several of the commenters here not only dont know enough about the context of web programming, and are relating specious ideas, but - sadly - they are in the target audience that Eric was talking at, and they've missed the points sent directly their way.<BR/><BR/>If you're using big frameworks in PHP, you are almost 100% wrong to be doing so. PHP fits inside frameworks, it doesn't implement them. Java (as one example, probably the best one right now) is a far far better language for framework building. PHP does it "OK" but there's really no excuse not to be using J2EE (either full on, or customized) if you're going that way.<BR/><BR/>PHP is better than that; it does simpler things more simply. Use it where it's strong, not "wherever I am able to".<BR/><BR/>YMMV, of course :).Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7533727264507128560.post-24487177216866378752009-02-01T14:44:00.000-08:002009-02-01T14:44:00.000-08:00Eric.. agreed.. you make some good points, specifi...Eric.. agreed.. you make some good points, specifically re: PHP scripts emitting crufty URL's (I'd say the same goes for Perl) - when required to reverse engineer a script - it's good to have context from the URL.. Enough about that.<BR/><BR/>After reading your post, I got to thinking. Have people thought of 'what programming language to use' from a different point of view. The one I'm proposing is this one. What *scripting* language enables faster execution code for the hardware you buy. To ask the question another way - does it make sense to consider that a particular scripting language will execute faster on cheaper hardware? Or is the cost of *other* engineering resources too high(you already alluded to some in your blog) to count pennies?<BR/>I'm curious.<BR/>-SatyenAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7533727264507128560.post-87732153891597976812009-01-20T14:58:00.000-08:002009-01-20T14:58:00.000-08:00I tend to think that it's used, not primarily beca...I tend to think that it's used, not primarily because it's quick, but because there is such a low barrier of entry. Tens of thousands of lines of codes that have been tested means very little if it could have been done in much less (IE: Wordpress, osCommerce, etc). Just because it works, doesn't mean it's good or maintainable. This is where the divide happens. I get very frustrated having to fix all of the 'PHP Programmers' code out there. They mix/match examples from online, and then try and piece it together to fit their needs. They don't know what they are doing, and at the end of the day can't support or maintain what they did.<BR/><BR/>This is not a sweeping statement, by any means, as I know there are very many awesome PHP programmers out there. I have just found myself to be happier when building in Ruby as it is so much more elegant and maintainable (even outside of Rails). To me, it's also about being proud and satisfied with your work - not just putting something together for the sake of putting it together.<BR/><BR/>The 'large community' (quantity) doesn't directly correlate with quality.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7533727264507128560.post-40182715206055969462009-01-20T13:39:00.000-08:002009-01-20T13:39:00.000-08:00Excellent article. I've been working in PHP for m...Excellent article. I've been working in PHP for much of a decade now and maybe I'm in the minority, but I truly like it for a variety of reasons, but the chiefest is likely your point at the end of the article: it gets out of my way and let's me focus on the other elements of a project including interface, client-side scripting, etc. I've used Python and Ruby before, too, when required of me but I always return to PHP if given the choice by a client.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7533727264507128560.post-41299302235287051262009-01-20T00:49:00.000-08:002009-01-20T00:49:00.000-08:00Where's the evidence that PHP "won" ...Where's the evidence that PHP "won" or is even winning? It certain doesn't have, say, the dominance in web apps that C++ has in desktop app. Does anyone even believe that >50% of web pages are served by PHP? Facebook uses it, but not Amazon nor Ebay nor Google nor [you-name-it] do.<BR/><BR/>In fact, the data (www.php.net/usage.php) show that PHP's adoption flattened in the middle of 2005. Well, web development has continued to grow, so it must be growing elsewhere...Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7533727264507128560.post-39742407859374158852009-01-19T04:35:00.000-08:002009-01-19T04:35:00.000-08:00Why is "writing unit tests or mock objects in PHP ...Why is "writing unit tests or mock objects in PHP an exercise in constant frustration"?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7533727264507128560.post-84580372671896912362009-01-18T20:33:00.000-08:002009-01-18T20:33:00.000-08:00The great thing about PHP is that you can do ANYTH...The great thing about PHP is that you can do ANYTHING -- really, anything, that can be done on the web by a website. You can do it very, very quickly, and usually with support from existing libraries. And it has been proven to scale horizontally, to the moon.<BR/><BR/>As for Ruby, it's a cute language, I admit. I love the design of Rails (and have been using symfony PHP for a year now because of that.) I haven't had a reason to try Python, but I certainly know Java and C# and ASP.NET pretty well. PHP is a much better choice for user-interface-oriented web programming. It simply reduces the amount of effort you need to accomplish your goal, and can still scale.<BR/><BR/>Why is PHP just an easier way to get things done?<BR/>1. useful, huge ecosystem with amazing sample code<BR/>2. no-theory-bullshit to get in the way of program logic. PRAGMATISM at it's best.<BR/>3. lightning fast edit-compile-test loop (edit-test)<BR/>4. Easy to set up, scale, and migrate between infrastrucure<BR/>5. it doesn't put new and idiotic metaphors on top of the web -- the web is it's metaphor. (unlike, say, ASP.NET which is godawful)<BR/>6. super-helpful associative arrays very closely mirror database-style data. I tend to recreate them in every language I use.<BR/><BR/>There are things that PHP is not great at -- systems administration, realtime services, embedded programming, whatever. But for plain old data-driven website, PHP never loses site of the simple fact -- it's just a freakin' website. Get it done and move on!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7533727264507128560.post-14903084640894269532009-01-17T22:47:00.000-08:002009-01-17T22:47:00.000-08:00Almost every point in this article is why I don't ...Almost every point in this article is why I don't use php anymore.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7533727264507128560.post-74060891439982637872009-01-17T10:59:00.000-08:002009-01-17T10:59:00.000-08:00Been using PHP, Ruby and Python for years now. I'...Been using PHP, Ruby and Python for years now. I'm going to have to say that I prefer Ruby as a language (but Python is right up there as well)... and Rails as a web framework.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7533727264507128560.post-63184544440586072702009-01-17T06:05:00.000-08:002009-01-17T06:05:00.000-08:00I've been a programmer for almost 10 years, when I...I've been a programmer for almost 10 years, when I need to use a scripting language, I choose the best tool for the job.<BR/><BR/>Python is good for system administration, PHP is great for Web development. <BR/><BR/>If you are a Web developer, PHP is powerful. If you are a Sys admin, Python and Bash-scripting gets the job done.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7533727264507128560.post-24416910039566989212009-01-17T01:43:00.000-08:002009-01-17T01:43:00.000-08:00I am CTO of a SaaS vendor, and we use PHP. Oh, PHP...I am CTO of a SaaS vendor, and we use PHP. Oh, PHP has its warts: inconsistent syntax and variable ordering and a few other faults. But at the end of the day, PHP runs 24x7 under heavy loads without crashing, it's excellent documentation offsets the inconsistent APIs, and the simplicity of programming with the "everything is a string" makes it trivial to deal with many different types of data. <BR/><BR/>PHP provides decent performance for dirt cheap, is easily understood, and if structured correctly, can scale to very large projects easily thanks to its "share nothing" approach. <BR/><BR/>Having spent the better part of 10 years writing large projects in PHP - I love it!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7533727264507128560.post-11911211107532229022009-01-17T01:37:00.000-08:002009-01-17T01:37:00.000-08:00PHP certainly has it's place for some scenarios, l...PHP certainly has it's place for some scenarios, like small quick scripts, but having worked with php for 10 years and then switched to python and recently joined the django bandwagon I must strongly disagree with you. <BR/><BR/>I'm happy PHP existed 10 years ago, I think it got a lot of people interested in web development when the alternatives were monsters like ASP and JSP. But today I believe that ruby and python, with RoR and Django are most definitely the best ways to go for a startup business that wants to get productive.<BR/><BR/>Sure, one can argue that facebook and flickr are great apps built in PHP, but do youthink they would have used it if they started off today? I certainly don't.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com